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ECD’S INSIGHT: Envisioning An Ideal Agency Model Like An Elite Law Firm
理想的广告公司就是像一个精英律师行

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采访|Interview: Maria Laletina
— 独家采访25Hours广告公司创办人兼创意总监陶磊
      An exclusive interview with creative director Lei Tao 25 HOURS

一条与众不同的广告片把我们引领到了其背后的创意广告公司–25Hours。今年年底,开米冼衣液的新片悄然上线。有别于时下广告的色彩斑斓和热闹张狂,片子以细腻地镜头感和独特的黑白格调吸引了我们的注意力(开米最新广告片在SHP+的报道)

25Hours的公司位于上海古北,远离了4A广告和众多有名气的广告公司云集的 “中心”地区(The Central,你晓得的) 。在25Hours漂亮的前台,创意总监和公司创始人之一的陶磊亲自跑出来迎接我们。在他摆满杂志书籍和广告奖项的办公室里,我们与这位思维敏捷、谈吐清晰的创意总监的展开了一席对话。

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SHP+:你是什么时候开始成立25Hours的?你现在有多少客户?
陶磊:25Hours是我与我的搭档在2002年底一起创办的,但是当时我并没有在管理。公司最早的规模非常小,大概只有(我这个办公室)这么大的一间房子大。主要以做平面和包装设计为主。在2011 ,我离开了李奥贝纳回到了25Hours。这两年公司发生了很大变化。以设计为主的工作减少了,以整合营销的全案变得更多。我们后来建立了digital部门。把传统跟digital 作为一个完整的整合营销手段带给客户。现在,我们是一家提供360度整合Campaign的广告公司。

目前有的客户包括红星美凯龙、开米(Kami)、锐澳酒业、善存和志邦厨具等七、八家常客。

SHP+:为什么你选择离开李奥贝纳?你学习的专业广告相关吗?
陶磊:我毕业于中国美术学院视觉传达系。我在4A工作差不多有15年了,先后进入上海天联广告公司(BBDO shanghai)、上海奥美广告公司(Ogilvy shanghai),上海李奥贝纳公司(Leo Burnett shanghai)任创意群总监。我在李奥贝纳的时间大概有9年。在2011年我选择离开了那里。

我离开4A有几个原因:第一,我觉得4A的工作方法很老旧,第二,4A工作的时间很多时间都浪费在会议上,没有真正地在工作。4A公司给客户真正的帮助太少了。

4A公司最大的问题是:每个人仅是一个小块的独立思考。例如,如果你是美术总监,你只是站在美术总监的角度看;文案只管写自己的文案……我认为的广告不是这样做,我认为的广告是50年代的美国,它是一家帮你了解市场,分析产品的AGENCY – (教客户)怎么销售,用哪些media去支持,用哪些idea去产生这样的作用 。

SHP+: 你想建立一个怎么样的广告公司?
陶磊我不希望成为一个很大的广告公司。但我要我的每一个员工能成就自己最大价值 。我们会用更少的人获得更大的营业收入。如何可以达到这个点?这需要每个人在各自的行业是精英,比如营销的精英、在消费者分析方面的精英等等。我心目中的(理想)的广告公司更像是一个律师楼,不同的Partner都是大的律师,不同的人都有自己的专长。

我坚信好的广告公司不需要太多人。我一直把公司的人数维持在40多个左右,包括了digital和传统部门。相对很多公司来说,我们的人员非常稳定。建立公司初期的员工现在还在,(工作了)十几年,做了5-7年时间的有许多人。我们有稳定的团队才可以与客户沟通交流。

SHP+: 你理想中的客户是什么样的?
我最理想客户其实不是说它现在有多大的品牌(知名度)。而是今天它很小,我们有机会把它做大。这是我最想要的客户。

客户看重我们的有几点:第一, 找我们的客户都是因为我们的行业“口碑”,客户看重我们的地方。我们没有销售,一年做一次或两次的pitch。第二,我们给客户的思考不是局部,而是更全面的考虑。4A公司现在真正工作的人是小朋友,junior的人;我们的人不多,但我们的人是有经验的、senior的。第三点就是我们跟digital(营销)接得很紧,4A公司的digital太慢了。

“我心目中的(理想)广告公司更像是一个律师楼,不同的Partner都是大的律师,不同的人都有自己的专长。”

 

SHP+: 我留意到你的客户中没有车的品类,你希望做汽车的客户吗?
我做过许多品类的广告,但我不喜欢做车 但是我不会做车。做车,首先,从拍摄角度来讲,钱比较多。从广告来说,做车的客户之间的关系太深,我不喜欢,因为我们是很简单,你喜欢我们的想法,喜欢我们帮你做事,就这么简单。做车底下乱七八糟的事太多,我们不会处理。第二,汽车的感觉太套路。(客户)决策层的态度已经决定要走保险的路线。我对这个领域没有太大的兴趣。

SHP+: 在广告的流程里,你最享受哪一个歩骤?
我以往享受brainstorming得出的新创意。但我现在更注重和喜欢前期调研这一块。我不知道你们了不了解客户的brief是什么样子的?现在我们拿到的一个brief,一般是一个很杂乱的状况,信息是繁杂的。也没有人知道为什么讲这个脚本,为什么说这个信息,这个信息对不对,我凭什么判断? 而我们就要回到消费者,找到触动消费者的“点”是什么。

我现在会跑市场,与(客户)销售和不同的人沟通。在这中间真正洞察消费者的需要,再用CREATIVE的方法表现出来。

SHP+: 我们这几年收很多广告脚本,我们发现中国的广告脚本在创意、故事情节、幽默以及视觉有所提高,你个人怎么认为的?
:中国大部分的作品像你提到的:缺乏幽默感、缺乏的故事动人性和缺乏漂亮的视觉。对我来说,相比西方广告,我更希望拥有他们的insight而非他们的执行手法。但是国外抓到的那些insight是不可以直接搬到中国来的,因为不同市场,不同人和不同文化的关系。但我们如何抓住中国老百姓心里面的insight,这是我认为最重要的东西。

SHP+: 我最近收到你们的锐澳酒业的一个广告脚本,故事有关中国餐饮文化,虽然我向你推荐过国外的导演,但听说客户最终还是认为中国或者亚洲的导演会比较合适。请问国外的导演是否比较难拿下带有强烈中国味道的案子?
:其实在这个案子上,我比较偏向用国外导演,我认为尤其是拍中国东西的时候,他们看中国的视角会跟我们和台湾的导演不一样。如果国外的制作公司可以解决本土的沟通问题,是非常好的(选择)。但与国外的制作公司工作,主要不是沟通的问题,而大家做事习惯的问题。你(国外制作)得适应国内客户工作方式,不会那么地一板一眼,但大部分来说是好的。

SHP+: 你今年看到过印象最深的一个广告是什么?
宜家的“天空之床”

25hours_2

陶磊经常受邀成为广告奖的评委 Lei is regularly invited to be the judge in China ad awards

A distinctive commercial led us to the agency 25 HOURS. With work unlike today’s colorful and face-paced advertising, their new film for Kami liquid washing detergent, with beautiful cinematography and a unique black and white tone attracted our attention.

25 HOURS offices are in Shanghai’s Gubei area, quite aways from the “central” advertising area in Xuhui, where many 4A and international agencies are based. When we arrived to their beautiful reception area creative director and co-founder Lei Tao personally came out to greet us. In his office filled with books and advertising awards, we and the quick-thinking creative sat down to chat.

SHP +: How long ago did you found this agency? And how many clients do you now have?
Lei: I founded 25 HOURS with my partner at the end of 2002, but I was not managing it at that time. The company then was very small and we mainly did graphic and packaging design, while I continued working at larger agencies as well. In 2011, I left Leo Burnett, where I was working at that time, and returned to 25 HOURS full time. Huge changes have taken place in the past two years for the company. Design-oriented work gave way to integrated marketing campaigns, and we have also established a digital division. Traditional advertising with a digital component gives customers a complete integrated marketing angle. Now, we are a 360-degree integrated campaign advertising company!

Some current retainers include China Red Star, Kami, Rio Cocktails, Centrum and Zbom Kitchenware etc.

SHP +: Did you study Advertising? And what did you do in Leo Burnett?
Lei: I graduated from the China Academy of Fine Arts, a student of graphic design. I worked for almost 15 years in 4A agencies, at BBDO, Ogilvy, Leo Burnett. I was at Leo Burnett for 9 years, and was group creative director there when I decided it was time to move on.

SHP +: Why did you choose to leave Leo Bennett after working there for so long?
Lei: There were several reasons: Firstly, I find the working methods of the 4A’s very outdated, and secondly, there are a lot of wasted hours in meetings.

But also, there are too many people are working on a single customer, and each is thinking only of their own job, and not coming together to figure out the problem of what is the best advertising for the client. The biggest problem of the 4A agencies is that everyone is only a small piece of independent thinking. I think advertising should go back to the way it was in the US in the 1950s – when your company helped you to understand the market and analyze what is wanted by the consumer, as well as educate the client on what works and which ideas produce the greatest effects.

“I have in mind an advertising company that is more like a law firm – employees are all like partners – they play a big role and each have their own expertise.”


SHP +: What kind of agency do you want to build?

Lei: I do not want to become a great advertising company. But I want each of my employees to be able to accomplish their best, and contribute their own value. Ideally, I have in mind an advertising company that is more like a law firm – employees are all like partners – they play a big role and each have their own expertise. To me the ideal size of a company, including traditional and digital, would be only around 40 people.

Compared to other companies, our staff is very stable. Many of the employees have been with us since the beginning – more than ten years now, and quite a few have been here 5-7 years.

SHP +: Who would be your ideal clients?
Lei: I don’t actually think it’s the big brands who make the best clients. Ideally, a small brand whom we can grow big with, would be the kind of client we would like to work with.

We have a good reputation in the the industry, and clients often find us by word of mouth, and they value our company. We do not market ourselves, maybe only pitch once or twice a year. We’re also not just thinking about the immediate with our clients, but giving a more comprehensive consideration. At the moment, the work from 4A agencies is being diluted and actually done by the kids, but our people are experienced, senior. Also, we are keeping up with digital – this is something which is quite slow in the 4A agencies at the moment.

SHP +: Would you like to have a car brand as a client?
Lei: I’ve worked in a lot of categories of advertising, but I do not like working with cars. First of all, it’s more expensive. It’s also more complicated; we try to keep things very simple – you like our idea, we help you to do things – it’s that simple. Secondly, the car commercials are all the same. Clients feel they have to go with what they know has worked before. I don’t have much interest in that.

25Hours_3贴在陶磊窗上的“大字条”,似乎时刻提醒自己的工作方式和品牌的定义
Notes sticking on Lei’s office window, a reminder of his working method and the brand definitions

SHP +: What’s your favorite part of the whole creative process?
Lei: In the past I loved brainstorming and coming up with new ideas. Now, I pay more attention to the market research. When we get a brief it’s usually all over the place, the information is complicated, so we will go back to the consumer and find what it is that affects them the most – and then find a CREATIVE way to show that.

SHP +: We have received a lot of storyboards over the years, and we’re seeing that the Chinese boards are getting more creative, have a lot more story-telling, humor and great visuals recently. Do you agree?
Lei: Some Chinese works are changing, but in most there is no sense of humor, there is no strong touching story, no beautiful imagery.

For me, I would want to have this insight of Western advertising, rather than their execution practices. But of course, due to the different cultures, we cannot copy the insight in those Western ads – we have to seize the heart of the Chinese people, which I think is the most important thing.

SHP +:. We pitched the Rio storyboard recently, it’s a board about traditional Chinese cuisine, and the client chose an Asian director in the end. Is it difficult for a foreign director to nail such a culturally Chinese spot? Do you like to work with foreign directors?
Lei: No, I do not agree with that. I like European and Foreign directors, especially when we are filming a particularly Chinese script because I like to see how they interpret the script from their angle. It’s usually more interesting interpretation than a Chinese or Taiwanese director would bring.

If a foreign production company can solve communications projects, it works well. But working with foreign production companies is not just a problem of communication, it’s a problem of working styles. Foreign productions have to adapt to the way the clients work over here, it’s a less strict style – but for the most part it’s not a problem.

SHP +: Which spot impress you the most in this year so far?

Lei: IKEA’s  “Sky Bed”.

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